Women against Women
by Elouise
Quaker Woman Preaching in New Amsterdam
It’s the late 1970s in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m a religion student at Vanderbilt University, studying for my Ph.D. The pastor of my United Presbyterian church has asked me to preach on Women’s Day. It’s my first sermon ever, and he wants me to preach about women’s issues and women’s liberation.
I worked hard putting together a lively sermon, then shook in my trousers as I stood in the pulpit and delivered the goods. Because there were a number of ‘liberated’ women in the congregation, it never occurred to me that I would get any kickback.
Indeed, comments and hugs after the service reassured me that all was well.
I was wrong. One of my best female supporters was seething with rage. She was older than I, highly educated and married to a professor. She didn’t hesitate to speak her mind to our pastor and to me.
My sermon sounded angry, and I wore trousers in the pulpit. I also think she might have liked to preach a sermon herself. Not only was she highly educated, she’d been a member of the church longer than I. Why had I, a relative newcomer, been singled out?
Fast forward to my first year of teaching at the seminary. It’s spring 1984. I’m in Philadelphia, teaching at a multiracial, multicultural seminary that has over 30 percent women students. I’ve been invited to speak to the Women’s Auxiliary, a group of faithful, diligent, smart women who support the seminary in dozens of ways, including fundraising efforts.
We met in a parlor-like room. The group included many pastor’s wives who had been around the seminary for years. I’d been asked to talk about myself and how I see women fitting into the work and mission of the seminary.
When I finished, we had time for discussion. Though most of our conversation was constructive and positive, I’ll never forget one woman’s painful, angry comments.
Here I was, younger than she, teaching at the seminary. And here was the seminary supporting women for ordination. And here was the Field Education Office, wanting to send a young woman to do her field education work under the supervision of her husband.
And here was this older woman, educated, experienced and clear about her role at the church as the ‘first lady.’ In fact, she believed she could have been a pastor. She was probably correct.
Nonetheless, she didn’t want seminary women working with her husband, taking over the place that rightfully belonged to her as his spouse. She didn’t trust women, including the women at the seminary. Over the years she had found a way to make space for herself in ministry without the “Rev.” and all the trappings that go with that. I’ve sometimes wondered whether she trusted her husband, the pastor.
I’ve seen this anger many times in older, well-educated, even brilliant women who for many reasons never followed their dreams. How sad when we make it women against women instead of holding each other and weeping for what we’ve all lost.
The valley of the shadow of death runs deep through the history of women against women. And still threatens to undo us.
©Elouise Renich Fraser, 13 March 2018
Image found at marybarrettdyer.blogspot.com
Telling the Truth 
In the early 80’s my experience with women in ministry was extremely limited. While serving as the student body president at seminary I became friends with a lovely (second career) African American woman who was a prominent member of her congregation in Germantown and who became a member of the student council.
During the summer I worked alongside her during the summer at her church as she directed a day care program for them. This was a highly accomplished woman who had given up a career as a public school administrator to go to seminary and prepare for pastoral ministry. She was beyond overqualified for whatever meager salary they were paying her as a summer job to direct that program.
I was astounded by the ugly behavior I saw directed toward her from other women in the church. When I expressed my sympathy to her she merely smiled and said “Those are women who never had the opportunities that I have been given and they resent it. I don’t hold it against them.”
She is with the Lord now I believe but her grace under fire continues to challenge me to set the bar high. I learned much during that experience!
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Thanks, Dan. I think your friend was correct and wise. I also think I know who your friend was.
While going through the attic over the weekend I found my pile of student photo directories, including one with your smiling face! 😊
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I don’t even remember a photo directory existing! She was a great lady. Initials M.S.
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It was the first year we published them. I can’t remember whether students got them back then or not. I’m glad I kept them all. As for M.S., I agree! She had a ton of energy and know-how.
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This is a great post. Fascinating! I grew up in the church (Dad is a pastor from a long line of pastors) I remember back in the 80s when people had trouble accepting woman pastors- my dad actually ended up with a female associate pastor at one point which was fantastic. I think it helped ease some people- though there were always those gossipy types who always had something to say. (You should have heard what they said about the ‘wild’ pastors daughter..aka: Moi) Even as a child- I never understood that kind of animosity toward woman who felt called into ministry. Seemed hypocritical to me.
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Hi, Irene.
Thanks for your comment and for your memories! I don’t know if this can be proven, but I suspect much of the animosity is related to (1) fewer opportunities for women to serve as senior pastors, and/or (2) the way this challenges women who live in very conservative households. Your church was fortunate to have a female associate pastor who worked well with your Dad, despite the comments of some. Sometimes congregations have higher standards for women pastors than for men pastors. It sounds like this associate was able to build bridges and take the heat. As for being a PK, it’s a tough path, and some of us just have to grin and bear it! 🙂 Though I admit I was not on the ‘wild’ side.
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Dear Elouise,
My point of view is from the other side. I got into teaching when there was a huge need for people and all that was required was one year of a Uni degree. As the years went on I finished my degree and gain a few more incidental qualifications. But I became quite experienced and relatively competent. I ran anti-bullying programmes that really worked and a careers guidance class and student work experience. I had many student teachers sent to me from teachers college.But when new, young, inexperienced graduates with wonderful paper qualifications came in and were given authority over me, by new and over-qualified but inexperienced Principals, I felt annoyed and upset. The only difference is that I never went to the upstarts and berated them. I just shut up and watched my programmes die. There was nothing I could do.You have of course read about one such programme in https://wp.me/p8PuzR-QB
So I have never experienced it from your side, only from the other side.
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Dear John,
How sad. The closest I’ve come to having experiences like that had to do with new administrators who were often younger and less experienced (after I’d been there a while). It’s dehumanizing to watch your creative work go down the drain in favor of ‘new’ and ‘better’ ideas. I know each generation has to make its own way, yet I applaud new faculty and administrators with the grace and courage to learn a thing or two from folks who’ve been there and shaped programs and services. We’re not all sticks in the mud–which I’m quite sure you were not, either. Thanks for the link. I’ll take a look and remind myself of what you experienced from your other side. Thanks for your comment.
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I can only speak from the corporate world experience. It’s so hard to break through the “glass ceiling”. I tried my best not to be the kind of female manager who “pulled the ladder up after her”. But I can understand how some other women felt. The fight was so hard, they needed the women who came after them to have the same experience, otherwise they feared (probably with good cause) that their efforts would not be properly appreciated i.e. they would be taken for granted, and even – gasp! – considered dead wood by the new young guard.
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Hi, Gwen. Thanks for your comment about the corporate world. You’re correct about what women need to experience on the way up. We’ve tolerated too many men who were handed positions for which they were neither prepared nor suited. Over here it’s often white men who get there via charm and politics, not hard work. When women have positions of authority, the burden is huge. Not only must we do our jobs better than most men, we must also help women find their way. No one wins if things are handed out because of charm and politics, not hard work. So yes, being fair, open, approachable, and clear about what will and will not be tolerated/accepted is important. You got me thinking about a topic for another post! Thanks again for talking about your experience. I’m not a corporate type, and was in a religious academic setting. Still, rules and expectations regarding women leaders were often more stringent for us than for men at almost any level in the organization.
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I’ve encountered many women like this through my lifetime and I think it speaks more for their own sense of self that through almost bullying tactics they try to hang on to what they see as theirs, instead of building up, hell bent on tearing down to appease that little child within them they feel was wronged. Great post E ❤
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It’s sad because many are much more talented/gifted than they realize. And it’s not necessarily too late to do what their hearts want to do. Thanks for the comment, Kim.
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